# Developing ACCESS-ESM1.5 for the past warm world of the Miocene **URL:** \ **Category:** Main Program Day 2\ **Tags:** video, talk, session-5\ **Created:** [31 August 2023 07:29 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205 "2023-08-31T07:29:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dkhutch](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/dkhutch/32/510_2.png) [@dkhutch](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/dkhutch)\ **Post date:** [31 August 2023 07:29 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/1 "2023-08-31T07:29:04Z")
# Title Developing ACCESS-ESM1.5 for the past warm world of the Miocene # Speaker Dave Hutchinson (@dkhutch), UNSW # Recording [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/uploads/access1/original/2X/0/096623481909172cc757664361a48bb25c1bda20.jpeg "Dave Hutchinson UNSW") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtkdXjzawTc) # Location Weston Theatre (and online). See the [main workshop help topic for zoom details](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/workshop-information-everything-you-need-to-know/1172#zoom-details-3). # Time 10:00-10:15 # Abstract # Feedback If you want to ask questions of the speaker **you must reply to this topic**. We encourage all speakers and attendees to continue fruitful discussions in replies to this topic for as long as they wish (weeks, years ..). This topic will remain available for as long as this site exists. **Note:** This topic is part of the [2023 ACCESS Community Workshop](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/c/access-workshop-2023/61) main session ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/uploads/access1/original/1X/d8217396f46876e65685c86067b9f8c89d230627.png) [@system](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/system)\ **Post date:** [5 September 2023 23:55 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/2 "2023-09-05T23:55:19Z")
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**Author:** ![Dietmar\_Dommenget](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/dietmar_dommenget/32/494_2.png) [@Dietmar\_Dommenget](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/Dietmar_Dommenget)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 00:19 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/3 "2023-09-06T00:19:39Z")
We did similar things with the ACCESS-N48 coupled model: Drake Passage closed, new continents, remove Australia … many work others still crash … … and yes it is a real pain to get this going, but it really should be much simpler. best regards Dietmar ---
**Author:** ![Aidan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/aidan/32/42_2.png) [@Aidan](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/Aidan)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 00:21 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/4 "2023-09-06T00:21:18Z")
Great talk, thanks @dkhutch. You said at the beginning of your talk that paleo climates have some relevance for projected increased greenhouse gas scenarios in our future. How much do the large changes in ocean circulation, particularly Antarctic isolation affect the utility of paleo climates as proxies for our near future climate? ---
**Author:** ![paulleopardi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/paulleopardi/32/92_2.png) [@paulleopardi](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/paulleopardi)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 01:47 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/5 "2023-09-06T01:47:31Z")
Thanks for your talk, Dave. I have been spending some time tracking down people who have been using the UM for paleoclimate simulations. Kenji Izumi has been doing Last Glacial Maximum simulations. As I understand it, these involve changing the extent of land ice, but not the location of conntinents. See (e.g.) [https://code.metoffice.gov.uk/trac/roses-u/search?q=kenjiizumi+lgm&noquickjump=1&changeset=on&ticket=on&wiki=on](https://code.metoffice.gov.uk/trac/roses-u/search?q=kenjiizumi+lgm&noquickjump=1&changeset=on&ticket=on&wiki=on) for previous Rose/Cylc suites, and [ORCID](https://orcid.org/0000-0001-9651-6420) for publications. I have also seen some paleo simulations in rose-stem tests. Details to follow. ---
**Author:** ![paulleopardi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/paulleopardi/32/92_2.png) [@paulleopardi](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/paulleopardi)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 02:00 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/6 "2023-09-06T02:00:56Z")
I have just looked through current UM sources and can’t find any paleoclimate tests in rose-stem. So it looks like I was wrong there. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![paulleopardi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/paulleopardi/32/92_2.png) [@paulleopardi](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/paulleopardi)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 02:11 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/7 "2023-09-06T02:11:19Z")
See also [https://www.paleo.bristol.ac.uk/resources/simulations/](https://www.paleo.bristol.ac.uk/resources/simulations/) for a list of BRIDGE paleoclimate simulations that use the UM. You may want to contact Paul Valdes to find out how BRIDGE creates UM-based paleoclimate simulations. Many of these simulations look to be quite old - some look like they use UMUI rather than Rose/Cylc for example. ---
**Author:** ![paulleopardi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/paulleopardi/32/92_2.png) [@paulleopardi](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/paulleopardi)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 02:17 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/8 "2023-09-06T02:17:44Z")
Charlie Williams, Alistair Sellar and Sebastian Steinig have been running Eocene simiulations with matching ancillary files. See [https://code.metoffice.gov.uk/trac/roses-u/search?changeset=on&ticket=on&wiki=on&q=eocene&page=1&noquickjump=1](https://code.metoffice.gov.uk/trac/roses-u/search?changeset=on&ticket=on&wiki=on&q=eocene&page=1&noquickjump=1) ---
**Author:** ![dkhutch](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/dkhutch/32/510_2.png) [@dkhutch](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/dkhutch)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 02:23 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/9 "2023-09-06T02:23:20Z")
Thanks Dietmar, it really helps to have community interested in these kinds of experiments, so it’s great to be able to compare notes with your N48 simulations. ---
**Author:** ![dkhutch](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/dkhutch/32/510_2.png) [@dkhutch](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/dkhutch)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 02:29 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/10 "2023-09-06T02:29:44Z")
Hi Aidan, One way to make these examples more applicable to future climate is to derive climate sensitivity for the particular configuration. [In the DeepMIP example, 55 million years ago](https://cp.copernicus.org/articles/16/1953/2020/), we estimate a “non-CO2” component of global warming to be 4.5 degC. The non-CO2 component comes from all the boundary condition changes, including paleogeography and removing all the ice. So, in the Eocene model ensemble, with 280 ppm CO2(pre-industrial), we already get about 4.5 deg C of warming. Climate sensitivity (w.r.t. to pre-industrial) due to CO2 is then calculated with an offset of -4.5 degC, to take that into account. ---
**Author:** ![dkhutch](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/dkhutch/32/510_2.png) [@dkhutch](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/dkhutch)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 02:31 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/11 "2023-09-06T02:31:53Z")
Hi Paul, Thanks for this. That is super cool that you have tracked down the ancillary files used by the Bristol team. I have just recently gained access to the Met Office MOSRS system, so I will definitely look into those. ---
**Author:** ![paulleopardi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/paulleopardi/32/92_2.png) [@paulleopardi](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/paulleopardi)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 03:44 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/12 "2023-09-06T03:44:01Z")
@HIMADRI_SAINI Please see this topic for previous paleoclimate simulations that used UM. ---
**Author:** ![paulleopardi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/paulleopardi/32/92_2.png) [@paulleopardi](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/paulleopardi)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 03:46 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/13 "2023-09-06T03:46:20Z")
See also [https://sebsteinig.github.io](https://sebsteinig.github.io) ---
**Author:** ![paulleopardi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/paulleopardi/32/92_2.png) [@paulleopardi](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/paulleopardi)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 04:05 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/14 "2023-09-06T04:05:36Z")
Right now, some of the ancillary files used by the Bristol team are sitting on a `/home` directory somewhere other than at NCI. For example, see `u-cn502`: ```auto [pcl851@gadi-login-06 u-cn502]$ find . -type f | grep -v '/pristine/' | sort | xargs grep '/home/' | grep ancil ./app/install_ancil/opt/rose-app-n216.conf:source=/home/d05/hadco/ancil_versions/GC3.1_n216_orca025/ancils_v3 ./app/install_ancil/rose-app.conf:source=/home/n02/n02/ssteinig/work/ancils/DeepMIP-Eocene/gc31/ancil_versions/GC3.1_eORCA1v2.2x_nemo_ancils_CMIP6.DeepMIP_Eocene.u-cn502 ./app/install_ancil/rose-app.conf:source=/home/n02/n02/ssteinig/work/ancils/DeepMIP-Eocene/gc31/ancil_versions/n96e_orca1_GA7.1_v2_atmos_ancils.DeepMIP_Eocene.u-cn502 ``` ---
**Author:** ![paulleopardi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/paulleopardi/32/92_2.png) [@paulleopardi](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/paulleopardi)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 04:18 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/15 "2023-09-06T04:18:45Z")
@MartinDix See this topic for responses to “Developing ACCESS-ESM1.5 for the past warm world of the Miocene”. Researchers at Bristol have been using the UM for Paleoclimate simulations, but details of their ancillary file configuration are not immediately available at NCI. Perhaps one of us should contact them to see if NCI can mirror their files, see what scripts they used to generate them, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Dietmar\_Dommenget](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/dietmar_dommenget/32/494_2.png) [@Dietmar\_Dommenget](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/Dietmar_Dommenget)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 04:55 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/16 "2023-09-06T04:55:24Z")
Dear Paul, I do not think this will help us much. @abhik has tried this, but we are dealing with a different coupled model with the ocean being MOM. We have not problems with MOM and also not with the UM. The problem that we have is the coupled ACCESS model. @MartinDix @dkhutch @atteggiani @Scott ---
**Author:** ![abhik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@abhik](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/abhik)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 05:27 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/17 "2023-09-06T05:27:26Z")
HadGEM3 DeepMIP-Eocene ancillary files are available on NCI and @atteggiani has access to them. We also have their user guide to generate the ancillaries. Still, we could not recreate their ACCESS counterparts! @dkhutch @Scott @MartinDix @Dietmar_Dommenget ---
**Author:** ![HIMADRI\_SAINI](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/himadri_saini/32/515_2.png) [@HIMADRI\_SAINI](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/HIMADRI_SAINI)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 05:40 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/18 "2023-09-06T05:40:52Z")
Thanks Paul. ---
**Author:** ![paulleopardi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.access-hive.org.au/paulleopardi/32/92_2.png) [@paulleopardi](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/paulleopardi)\ **Post date:** [6 September 2023 23:22 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/19 "2023-09-06T23:22:12Z")
Interesting. @abhik Could you please point me to the HadGEM3 DeepMIP-Eocene ancillary files on NCI and the user guide? I want to narrow down the outstanding issues in ancillary generation. ---
**Author:** ![abhik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@abhik](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/u/abhik)\ **Post date:** [7 September 2023 04:58 UTC](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205/20 "2023-09-07T04:58:00Z")
Hi @paulleopardi, The datasets are in the /g/data/n69/sza565/ancil-from-uk/ directory on Gadi. If you can’t read n69 files, @atteggiani got access to this dataset and the user guide. Anyway, I am uploading the user guide here for any future reference. [Idiot’s guide to setting up GC3.1 Eocene suite on NEXCS v3.pdf](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/uploads/short-url/aXrwAJsLreeKcn0nTscC0PREjkM.pdf) (607.3 KB) @Dietmar_Dommenget @dkhutch @Scott [Next page](https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/developing-access-esm1-5-for-the-past-warm-world-of-the-miocene/1205.md?page=2)